Solve : Fate of XP?

1.	Solve : Fate of XP?
Answer» Just curious about the latest thinking. I know some here think XP will be largely unaffected by MS's imminent cessation of support while others predict major security issues. Because I do not have nearly enough knowledge to form an independent conclusion, I took the safe way out and upgraded to Win7. I am so happy I did but still wonder and am very interested to see what, if anything, will happen to those individual XP users who do not buy support from MS. They will just open themselves up to glaring security holes - XP already gets attacked 6 times more than Windows 7 (1), this number will only go up once XP stops getting patched. Windows Vista, 7 and 8 still share large amounts of code with XP so updates to Windows that patch these old bits of code may expose weakness that lie in XP ready to be EXPLOITED. If people get exploited when using XP, I have absolutely no sympathy - It's almost 13 years old and they have had plenty warning to move to something newer, it's not like this is some big surprise that Microsoft just sprung up out of the blue! (1) http://www.pcworld.com/article/2109144/avast-windows-xp-users-already-attacked-6-times-more-often-than-windows-7-users.htmlNow my turn. I continue to use Windows XP only because I am very familiar with it. And it took me awhile to break off from using Windows 2000. Perhaps it is not generally understood that some old computer equipment is able to keep on working for years and years. Granted, there are maintenance costs that can be significant. But why should software systems have to wear out? Windows 2000 was based on Windows NT, a robust and comprehensive operating system deployed on a large number of commercial installations. The answer is Microsoft decided to retire older software and keep parts of it in a new package. That was a business plan that has served MS well. One could resown what is good for MS is good for many users. Not everybody would agree. Yet it is apparent that Microsoft has succeeded in dominance of the desktop. Even without security issues, MS would use this business model.Retire software every 12 years, reduce the upgraded path. Otherwise they would have to build an upgrade path from Windows 3.11 to Windows 8.2 for the few users who are sill using Windows for Work groups. As for the security issue, they is not foreseeable end to the criminal use of software exploitation. It may come to either get rid of criminals or get rid of software. In tat case, we would all have computers with no software. (1) As for me. I now have a computer that triple boots Windows XP,, windows 7 and Windows 8.1 trail version. I have set it to boot XP by default. So I guess I will skip learning Windows 7 and go for 8 just to keep up. I already had to skip Vista. Too bad about Vista. It had a nice name. A number is not a name. (1) http://www.techrepublic.com/forums/discussions/computers-without-software-why-not/#. I wouldn't say that MS are retiring XP to sell more software - They are retiring it as it's costing time and money to release updates and patches for an ancient OS. It's exactly the same as websites dropping support for older browsers, why go out of your way to support something ancient?Exactly. Having to put resources (people, time, money) into supporting an ancient OS takes away from more profitable ventures. While many may disagree, IMO, Win 7 & Win 8 are better OSes. XP had a good run but it's time to move on. XP is getting hit 6 times more than any other OS. Could this be because more people are using XP than the other OS's? Over the last two years I've been CLEANING computers of infections that are hitting all OS's. The majority of these infections are malware and not viruses and these infections are getting in regardless of how many security patches are installed. They will need to pry XP out of my cold, DEAD hands to quote Charleton Heston.I quit putting much credence into anything PCWorld publishes about the same time i stopped trusting CNet DLoads...both about 16 years ago. Quote from: camerongray on March 21, 2014, 10:48:04 AM I wouldn't say that MS are retiring XP to sell more software - They are retiring it as it's costing time and money to release updates and patches for an ancient OS. It's exactly the same as websites dropping support for older browsers, why go out of your way to support something ancient? Are these not part of t the same end goal? Sell more. Reduce costs. What I meant was that MS has found a business model that works. At least for now. But the mobile market r so split into different sectors, if is not feasible to become number one in a short term. In a FIGURATIVE sense. XP does live on as part of the foundation for the success of Microsoft. BTW: Embedded Windows XP still is alive. Here is a recent news blip . TAKE a took. Quote Less than 40% of U.S.'s 425,000 ATM systems will have migrated off Windows XP By Jaikumar Vijayan March 19, 2014 04:28 PM ET Computerworld - More than six out of 10 ATM machines in the country will be running on an obsolete operating system when Microsoft pulls the plug on Windows XP support on April 8, raising serious security and compliance issues for the systems' operators. According to the ATM Industry Association (ATMIA), about 38% of the nearly 425,000 ATMs in the U.S. that are powered by Windows XP will have migrated off the OS by next month's deadline. http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9247072/Most_ATMs_will_remain_on_Windows_XP_after_Microsoft_pulls_plug_on_OS_support_ Arte they going to Windows 7 soon? No way! Read the story carefully. Quote from: SuperDave on March 21, 2014, 12:32:10 PM XP is getting hit 6 times more than any other OS. Could this be because more people are using XP than the other OS's? Where did you get that from? Everywhere I can find says that Windows 7 significantly more popular than XP. Patio - That report was from Avast, The PCWorld report on it just happened to be the first link I found. Quote these infections are getting in regardless of how many security patches are installed. But surely once XP stops getting patched, this will leave open a lot more holes to be exploited. Then eventually once support is dropped, companies will stop releasing software for XP meaning people will start using old versions of things like their web browser - This will then cause even more security vulnerabilities. In the end, it's the user's fault that they are too stubborn to move to something newer, they can blame Microsoft all they want but it's hardly Microsoft being horrible by stopping support for something that is completely uneconomical for them to continue supporting. I don't understand why people are so religious about running XP, I mean, it's almost like they see it as 'cool' to use an old OS. If people have such a problem with a company deciding the fate of the software they are using, then they shouldn't be using commercial software.Just wanted to state that XP will still be good for Offline or Private LAN use where there is isolation from the internet but it can still serve a purpose. I own 6 copies of XP ( 2 x Home and 4 x Professional ) and have no plans to throw the towel in on them for use Offline or Private LAN communications where these are still usefull. In past years I continued to run prior versions of Windows Desktop and Server OS beyond the supported life placed on them by Microsoft. Windows 2000 Pro SP4 I used for many years beyond security support for Offline or Private Lan use mainly with Pentium 166Mhz & 200Mhz MMX and Pentium II based CPU systems that were not ready to be thrown into a landfill, and it didnt make much sense to install XP to with just 192MB RAM etc, yet Windows 2000 Pro SP4 with 128MB RAM or more worked well for the needed purpose at the time vs spending money. However Linux made vast improvements in hardware and software support and so I was able to do away with some that I was using as file servers etc and replace the older Windows OS without further security updates with Linux which was free and had security updates available. Since there are still some applications where XP will be needed vs Linux Offline or Private LAN, I will continue to use my licensed copies of them for years to come as I did in the past with the other OS's that phased out. I think one thing that people should consider is to try out a Linux Desktop OS which is free such as MINT, Fedora, or Ubuntu, etc if they have an older system that isnt worth putting money into and they dont want to spend money but still want to be secure from security problems. One example of a system I have that is older and works well with Linux is a 2002 model eMachine that is running a Pentium 4 2.0Ghz with 1GB of RAM. I am running Linux MINT 16 ( 32-bit ) on this system and it runs well and it is secure. I use this system for surfing the web on one display while I am doing something else on the other through a KVM to share keyboard/mouse, but each system has its video connection direct to monitor. Some may say why dont you just use a single system with dual video displays, but the reason for this is because some older games I have have issues with dual display mode systems, and also I like being able to switch between Linux MINT 16 32-bit and Windows 7 64-bit on the fly with the KVM. So anyone who isnt ready to send their older computer to the landfill should consider burning a DVD of Linux and installing it to an older machine if they want to stretch the secure life of the computer further without spending money. The only users this wouldnt work out for is gamers since Linux can be tricky getting games to run and some will not run on it. But if you are a gamer then you will want up to date hardware anyways. And if you like playing older games, chances are they can be played offline and so this XP system can be retained as a system to play the older games etc and with a KVM you can switch between this older Offline system running XP and your newer system with Windows 7 or 8 / 8.1. Lastly it is beneficial to retain that older system if you have older 16-bit software or programs that you dont want to stop using because 64-bit versions of Windows have no 16-bit support. The 32-bit versions of Windows support the 16-bit software or programs, but you would not want to buy into a modern 32-bit OS and then be locked down to a maximum of 4GB of system RAM to use for the OS. So because I have lots of older games that some work ok with DOS Box etc and others dont, its best to play them on the older hardware offline when there is that need to play a 16-bit version of Tetris etc without buying a newer version. Although this is probably a weak example since there is probably a free to play web based version of Tetris out there with a different name to avoid legal issues.DaveLembke, Thank you. Point well made. So are we talking about Question A.) What will Microsoft do with Windows XP? OR Question B.) What will computer users do with Windows XP? Answer A. MS will do nothing, other than enforce their copyrights. Answer B. Users will either buy new software or freeze in the universal cooling of computer software from heat seeking malware.camerongray; Allyou have to do is look up how many XP PC's are still in service... As far as Win7 goes you can't compare sales #'s to the # of machines running XP... Quote from: patio on March 21, 2014, 03:51:13 PM camerongray; Allyou have to do is look up how many XP PC's are still in service... As far as Win7 goes you can't compare sales #'s to the # of machines running XP... I'm not looking at sales, I'm looking at statistics from OSs used to visit websites, while this isn't completely accurate it's a pretty good prediction: http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0. I can't find anything recent that states that it is still the most popular. That said, it's pretty worrying that so many people are still using it. Quote Everywhere I can find says that Windows 7 significantly more popular than XP. It may be leading in popularity but not in usage. Quote this will leave open a lot more holes to be exploited. If they're not finding holes now how will they find them in the future? It's not like XP will still be undergoing changes. Quote This will then cause even more security vulnerabilities. Most of the infections I'm finding since over a year are not getting in through security vulnerabilities. It's been quite a while since I've found any viruses.The third-party security companies are not leaving XP. Security software ... for XP machine. UISA Today Quote ... Kaspersky Lab security solutions will continue to protect Windows XP systems beyond the Microsoft cut-off date, in accordance with Kaspersky Lab's scheduled product life cycles. During this period of extended support, Kaspersky Lab products installed on Windows XP machines will continue to receive the latest malware signature updates. ... McAfee says that while its security program "does not inherently stop vulnerabilities, it does make exploitation of those vulnerabilities significantly more difficult, if not impossible." The company is clear that "only a patch could truly fix the code." However it says, "potential breaches can be protected in a way that vastly reduces the risk of an attacker being able to make use of them." ...

Answer»

Just curious about the latest thinking. I know some here think XP will be largely unaffected by MS's imminent cessation of support while others predict major security issues. Because I do not have nearly enough knowledge to form an independent conclusion, I took the safe way out and upgraded to Win7. I am so happy I did but still wonder and am very interested to see what, if anything, will happen to those individual XP users who do not buy support from MS. They will just open themselves up to glaring security holes - XP already gets attacked 6 times more than Windows 7 (1), this number will only go up once XP stops getting patched. Windows Vista, 7 and 8 still share large amounts of code with XP so updates to Windows that patch these old bits of code may expose weakness that lie in XP ready to be EXPLOITED.

If people get exploited when using XP, I have absolutely no sympathy - It's almost 13 years old and they have had plenty warning to move to something newer, it's not like this is some big surprise that Microsoft just sprung up out of the blue!

(1) http://www.pcworld.com/article/2109144/avast-windows-xp-users-already-attacked-6-times-more-often-than-windows-7-users.htmlNow my turn. I continue to use Windows XP only because I am very familiar with it. And it took me awhile to break off from using Windows 2000.
Perhaps it is not generally understood that some old computer equipment is able to keep on working for years and years. Granted, there are maintenance costs that can be significant.
But why should software systems have to wear out? Windows 2000 was based on Windows NT, a robust and comprehensive operating system deployed on a large number of commercial installations. The answer is Microsoft decided to retire older software and keep parts of it in a new package.
That was a business plan that has served MS well. One could resown what is good for MS is good for many users. Not everybody would agree. Yet it is apparent that Microsoft has succeeded in dominance of the desktop. Even without security issues, MS would use this business model.Retire software every 12 years, reduce the upgraded path. Otherwise they would have to build an upgrade path from Windows 3.11 to Windows 8.2 for the few users who are sill using Windows for Work groups.
As for the security issue, they is not foreseeable end to the criminal use of software exploitation. It may come to either get rid of criminals or get rid of software. In tat case, we would all have computers with no software. (1)
As for me. I now have a computer that triple boots Windows XP,, windows 7 and Windows 8.1 trail version. I have set it to boot XP by default. So I guess I will skip learning Windows 7 and go for 8 just to keep up. I already had to skip Vista. Too bad about Vista. It had a nice name. A number is not a name.

(1) http://www.techrepublic.com/forums/discussions/computers-without-software-why-not/#.
I wouldn't say that MS are retiring XP to sell more software - They are retiring it as it's costing time and money to release updates and patches for an ancient OS. It's exactly the same as websites dropping support for older browsers, why go out of your way to support something ancient?Exactly. Having to put resources (people, time, money) into supporting an ancient OS takes away from more profitable ventures. While many may disagree, IMO, Win 7 & Win 8 are better OSes. XP had a good run but it's time to move on. XP is getting hit 6 times more than any other OS. Could this be because more people are using XP than the other OS's? Over the last two years I've been CLEANING computers of infections that are hitting all OS's. The majority of these infections are malware and not viruses and these infections are getting in regardless of how many security patches are installed. They will need to pry XP out of my cold, DEAD hands to quote Charleton Heston.I quit putting much credence into anything PCWorld publishes about the same time i stopped trusting CNet DLoads...both about 16 years ago. Quote from: camerongray on March 21, 2014, 10:48:04 AM

I wouldn't say that MS are retiring XP to sell more software - They are retiring it as it's costing time and money to release updates and patches for an ancient OS. It's exactly the same as websites dropping support for older browsers, why go out of your way to support something ancient?

Are these not part of t the same end goal?
Sell more.
Reduce costs.
What I meant was that MS has found a business model that works. At least for now. But the mobile market r so split into different sectors, if is not feasible to become number one in a short term.
In a FIGURATIVE sense. XP does live on as part of the foundation for the success of Microsoft.

BTW: Embedded Windows XP still is alive. Here is a recent news blip .
TAKE a took.
Quote

Less than 40% of U.S.'s 425,000 ATM systems will have migrated off Windows XP
By Jaikumar Vijayan
March 19, 2014 04:28 PM ET

Computerworld - More than six out of 10 ATM machines in the country will be running on an obsolete operating system when Microsoft pulls the plug on Windows XP support on April 8, raising serious security and compliance issues for the systems' operators.

According to the ATM Industry Association (ATMIA), about 38% of the nearly 425,000 ATMs in the U.S. that are powered by Windows XP will have migrated off the OS by next month's deadline.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9247072/Most_ATMs_will_remain_on_Windows_XP_after_Microsoft_pulls_plug_on_OS_support_
Arte they going to Windows 7 soon? No way! Read the story carefully.
Quote from: SuperDave on March 21, 2014, 12:32:10 PM

XP is getting hit 6 times more than any other OS. Could this be because more people are using XP than the other OS's?

Where did you get that from? Everywhere I can find says that Windows 7 significantly more popular than XP.

Patio - That report was from Avast, The PCWorld report on it just happened to be the first link I found.

Quote

these infections are getting in regardless of how many security patches are installed.

But surely once XP stops getting patched, this will leave open a lot more holes to be exploited. Then eventually once support is dropped, companies will stop releasing software for XP meaning people will start using old versions of things like their web browser - This will then cause even more security vulnerabilities.

In the end, it's the user's fault that they are too stubborn to move to something newer, they can blame Microsoft all they want but it's hardly Microsoft being horrible by stopping support for something that is completely uneconomical for them to continue supporting. I don't understand why people are so religious about running XP, I mean, it's almost like they see it as 'cool' to use an old OS.

If people have such a problem with a company deciding the fate of the software they are using, then they shouldn't be using commercial software.Just wanted to state that XP will still be good for Offline or Private LAN use where there is isolation from the internet but it can still serve a purpose.

I own 6 copies of XP ( 2 x Home and 4 x Professional ) and have no plans to throw the towel in on them for use Offline or Private LAN communications where these are still usefull.

In past years I continued to run prior versions of Windows Desktop and Server OS beyond the supported life placed on them by Microsoft. Windows 2000 Pro SP4 I used for many years beyond security support for Offline or Private Lan use mainly with Pentium 166Mhz & 200Mhz MMX and Pentium II based CPU systems that were not ready to be thrown into a landfill, and it didnt make much sense to install XP to with just 192MB RAM etc, yet Windows 2000 Pro SP4 with 128MB RAM or more worked well for the needed purpose at the time vs spending money.

However Linux made vast improvements in hardware and software support and so I was able to do away with some that I was using as file servers etc and replace the older Windows OS without further security updates with Linux which was free and had security updates available.

Since there are still some applications where XP will be needed vs Linux Offline or Private LAN, I will continue to use my licensed copies of them for years to come as I did in the past with the other OS's that phased out.

I think one thing that people should consider is to try out a Linux Desktop OS which is free such as MINT, Fedora, or Ubuntu, etc if they have an older system that isnt worth putting money into and they dont want to spend money but still want to be secure from security problems.

One example of a system I have that is older and works well with Linux is a 2002 model eMachine that is running a Pentium 4 2.0Ghz with 1GB of RAM. I am running Linux MINT 16 ( 32-bit ) on this system and it runs well and it is secure. I use this system for surfing the web on one display while I am doing something else on the other through a KVM to share keyboard/mouse, but each system has its video connection direct to monitor. *Some may say why dont you just use a single system with dual video displays, but the reason for this is because some older games I have have issues with dual display mode systems, and also I like being able to switch between Linux MINT 16 32-bit and Windows 7 64-bit on the fly with the KVM.

So anyone who isnt ready to send their older computer to the landfill should consider burning a DVD of Linux and installing it to an older machine if they want to stretch the secure life of the computer further without spending money. *The only users this wouldnt work out for is gamers since Linux can be tricky getting games to run and some will not run on it. But if you are a gamer then you will want up to date hardware anyways. And if you like playing older games, chances are they can be played offline and so this XP system can be retained as a system to play the older games etc and with a KVM you can switch between this older Offline system running XP and your newer system with Windows 7 or 8 / 8.1.

Lastly it is beneficial to retain that older system if you have older 16-bit software or programs that you dont want to stop using because 64-bit versions of Windows have no 16-bit support. The 32-bit versions of Windows support the 16-bit software or programs, but you would not want to buy into a modern 32-bit OS and then be locked down to a maximum of 4GB of system RAM to use for the OS. So because I have lots of older games that some work ok with DOS Box etc and others dont, its best to play them on the older hardware offline when there is that need to play a 16-bit version of Tetris etc without buying a newer version. Although this is probably a weak example since there is probably a free to play web based version of Tetris out there with a different name to avoid legal issues.DaveLembke, Thank you. Point well made.
So are we talking about
Question A.) What will Microsoft do with Windows XP?
OR
Question B.) What will computer users do with Windows XP?

Answer A. MS will do nothing, other than enforce their copyrights.

Answer B. Users will either buy new software or freeze in the universal cooling of computer software from heat seeking malware.camerongray;
Allyou have to do is look up how many XP PC's are still in service...
As far as Win7 goes you can't compare sales #'s to the # of machines running XP... Quote from: patio on March 21, 2014, 03:51:13 PM

camerongray;
Allyou have to do is look up how many XP PC's are still in service...
As far as Win7 goes you can't compare sales #'s to the # of machines running XP...

I'm not looking at sales, I'm looking at statistics from OSs used to visit websites, while this isn't completely accurate it's a pretty good prediction: http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0. I can't find anything recent that states that it is still the most popular.

That said, it's pretty worrying that so many people are still using it. Quote

Everywhere I can find says that Windows 7 significantly more popular than XP.

It may be leading in popularity but not in usage.
Quote

this will leave open a lot more holes to be exploited.

If they're not finding holes now how will they find them in the future? It's not like XP will still be undergoing changes.
Quote

This will then cause even more security vulnerabilities.

Most of the infections I'm finding since over a year are not getting in through security vulnerabilities. It's been quite a while since I've found any viruses.The third-party security companies are not leaving XP.
Security software ... for XP machine. UISA Today
Quote

...
Kaspersky Lab security solutions will continue to protect Windows XP systems beyond the Microsoft cut-off date, in accordance with Kaspersky Lab's scheduled product life cycles. During this period of extended support, Kaspersky Lab products installed on Windows XP machines will continue to receive the latest malware signature updates.
...
McAfee says that while its security program "does not inherently stop vulnerabilities, it does make exploitation of those vulnerabilities significantly more difficult, if not impossible." The company is clear that "only a patch could truly fix the code." However it says, "potential breaches can be protected in a way that vastly reduces the risk of an attacker being able to make use of them."
...

Solve : Fate of XP?

Discussion

No Comment Found

Related InterviewSolutions

Reply to Comment