Solve : Dell Blames Windows 8 for Poor Sales.?

1.	Solve : Dell Blames Windows 8 for Poor Sales.?
Answer» According to an article in the new Computerworld magazine, somebody at Dell computer company says that Windows 8 is the cause of slow sales of personal computers. Somebody has made that kind of statement before, and this would indicate there is some kind of talk ceiling inside the company that Windows 8 is not what they WANTED it to be. My guess is they wanted something so innovative that people would be willing to buy new hardware to get a copy of the new software. Well, that's not happening. Or even if it is happening, it's not enough to boost up lagging sales. Of course there's always some kind of an expert that has an opinion about everything. One such expert predicts that sales will keep falling as much by 20% for the next five years. How can he know what's going to HAPPEN in the next five years? Did he mean 20% after five years or did he mean 20% per year. If the latter, Dell and some other companies might as well switch over to some other kind of technology maybe they could come up with a new device for sharpening kitchen knives and sell it on TV with a money back guarantee. They more than likely would make money that way rather than trying to sell people personal computers they don't want. But a better way to sharpening kitchen knives would be more innovative than a PC that looks like it was supposed to be a smart phone but got too fat. I would've posted this in computer news, but this is more about speculation and conjecture. However, real computer news, is not like that. Links: Dell computer company blames poor sales on Windows 8. http://bigstory.ap.org/article/research-firm-pc-sales-plunge-windows-8-flops But MS flips the story over. http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Microsoft-PC-Windows-8-Sales,20720.html If newer computers were sold with a license key OS version option such as Windows 7 64bit / Windows 8 64 bit dual key like systems of the past, i think they would have better sales for all brands, as well as any slump in sales may be just because people dont need a new system and can get by with their already existing computers, or due to the fact that more people are building their own these days trough Tiger Direct, Newegg, and other sources for hardware. I know that I have saved lots of money building my own, and have only bought 4 computers brand new in the last 20 years. Out of curiosity the one day i tested my 11 year old motherboard against modern computing needs, a Pentium 4 2 Ghz with 1GB RAM running Windows XP Pro SP3, with integrated Intel 845GL graphics ( 64mb shared memory). It was able to play Netflix over the web on lowest 360 settings, with very little noticable lag when viewing. Audio quality was perfect. I also tested it for Facebook and all the Flash apps etc worked, although some games such as the casino game with slot machine dials had the audio complete before the dials got done spinning etc. It was playable, although it was struggling with Flash Games. Web surfing was no problems at all with Firefox. The only problem this 11 year old motherboard had for modern use was video games. Its older slower single-core 2Ghz CPU and integrated Intel 845GL graphics with 64MB shared memory was no match for the majority of games purchased off the SHELF unless you look at the Walmart $10 game titles that are not complicated in graphics and code execution and support Pentium III 800Mhz or faster system with 64MB video memory such as puzzle games and sim type games. As far as multi OS choice systems, I have seen the dual keys on Toshiba laptops, and HP Compaq's for Business class which came with Windows 98/ Windows 2000, as well as Windows 2000 Pro / Windows XP Pro, as well as Windows XP Home / Windows Vista back when so many people as well as businesses were rejecting Vista. If they gave customers a choice of Windows 7 or Windows 8 without any additional cost, you would have way more happy people out there. Those who want 8 will be happy with 8 and those who want 7 with start menu will be happy with 7. Whether its Windows 7 or Windows 8, Microsoft should allow for this downgrade and not care if a customer wants 7 or 8 as long as they are getting their revenue in per computer sold license fee. But I have this strong feeling that they have such pride in Windows 8 as well as want to collect on those who hate it, that they are almost forcing people to go the route of Windows 8 if you buy new computers, and if you have a problem with it... give us more money for 7!!! Which makes them more money than giving free downgrades to Windows 7 as they have in the past for some 98, 2000, XP, and Vista PC's. Has anyone seen a Windows 7 / Windows 8 dual license key label affixed to any new computers yet, I havent?This just in:: "" MS Blames Dell for slow Win 8 sales"".... Film at Eleven.Quote from: patio on June 05, 2013, 08:12:44 PM This just in:: "" MS Blames Dell for slow Win 8 sales"".... Film at Eleven. That just now raised the CH rank in Google. Good work, Patio.Quote from: DaveLembke on June 05, 2013, 07:35:47 PM Whether its Windows 7 or Windows 8, Microsoft should allow for this downgrade and not care if a customer wants 7 or 8 as long as they are getting their revenue in per computer sold license fee. But I have this strong feeling that they have such pride in Windows 8 as well as want to collect on those who hate it, that they are almost forcing people to go the route of Windows 8 if you buy new computers, and if you have a problem with it... give us more money for 7!!! Which makes them more money than giving free downgrades to Windows 7 as they have in the past for some 98, 2000, XP, and Vista PC's. Has anyone seen a Windows 7 / Windows 8 dual license key label affixed to any new computers yet, I havent? Understanding Downgrade Rights. MS already provides downgrade rights for Windows 8. I don't think they actually had a downgrade 'program' of sorts until Vista. Of note: the downgrade rights don't mean you are able to say, dual-boot with win8 and win7. If you downgrade, it's basically the same software license. Quote don't mean you are able to say, dual-boot No, dual boot is not using both versions at the same time. Now if you could get a duel-core CPU to run two OS at the same time... Quote from: Geek-9pm on June 06, 2013, 01:49:38 AM No, dual boot is not using both versions at the same time. That doesn't matter. if you get a Windows 8 License, and downgrade it to Windows 7, it is a Windows 7 license, and you are no longer "licensed" to use Windows 8 with the original key unless you entirely remove the Windows 7 license. You are trying to ignore the terms right in the EULA, which don't say anything about running the software and everything about installations of the software. BC, I see your point. BTW: Thee are statistics out there that show some people are still buying Windows XP. I have no explanation for that. Maybe it is time for MS to stop this whole business of dumping an OS after 12 years. Meanwhile, Windows 8 sales are still below expectations. Here is a new post on Computerworld News for windows 8 salesQuote from: Geek-9pm on June 06, 2013, 01:35:51 PM Meanwhile, Windows 8 sales are still below expectations. No they aren't. The article you linked points to dropped prices to encourage tablet makers to use Windows 8. Windows 8 Sales are about par with Windows 7 sales in the same period, and that is excluding RT. BC, who can you believe? One source says MS was disappointed. Another says the Windows 8 release now has run MS profits up 19%. Maybe they wanted 25% instead? And thee is the lame Blame thing. Blame who for what? Thee are Critics who hate Win 8 and a near equal number that love it. This post was about recent report of Dell making it a scapegoat to explain poor sales of Dell computers. One thing for sure; Dell sales are poor. And MS is making money. It should be noted that in MS's sales figures it includes sold and future liscenses for Win8 from builders and re-sellers...so the fact remains there's alot of unsold hardware out there that was counted in those #'s... By all means they did not want to hurt their Brand by posting dissapointing sales figures...that'll rapidly kill the release of any new product/app. So take it for what's it worth.Quote from: Geek-9pm on June 07, 2013, 11:25:12 AM BC, who can you believe? Neither of them. I never read 'tech news' for this very reason. They suffer from two problems: terrible conflation and statistics skew. One Columnist could point at sales statistics and say Win8 (or any software product) is a success, whereas a detractor can point at those same statistics and say it's a failure. This is exactly what you see with win8 sales figures, and it's hard not to notice that the detractors are always Linux or Apple advocates (eg. "MS Haters") and the people saying it's a success are in some ways "MS Shills". What I find annoying on both counts is that most of these columnists seem to focus on how much Windows 8 has sold, how popular it is, etc. while completely ignoring any of the actual merits of the software. And when they do look at it, it's so shallow they may as well just show a screenshot of Windows 8.1 and say "the start menu is coming back" (oh, right, that's what they did). The POPULARITY of a piece of software is not a direct reflection of it's quality, it's a function of that quality and marketing. A great product that is marketed terribly probably isn't going to be popular, and a terrible product that is exceptionally marketed can easily take over. Windows Vista is a example of the former, and Windows 7 is an example of the Latter; they are practically identical, but their different marketing approaches completely flip-flopped public opinion. Windows Vista was said- in marketing- to be "the greatest Windows yet" and this is confrontational to those using XP; They already became defensive when using it, looking for issues and so forth. Windows 7 was marketed as "we fixed it" (essentially) but all they really fixed was not saying it was the greatest version yet. The corollary to this is often that Popularity of some products (such as of course Windows) is inversely proportional to how good it is, which is unsurprisingly the argument posited by Linux or Apple Advocates. This is equally fallacious. Objectively considering UI design, usability, stability, and so forth requires taking all information and pairing it with actual experience and observations to come to a conclusion. One of the more interesting Windows 8 conversations I've had involved UEFI. Nobody really knows squat about UEFI- myself included- but they seem apt to draw their conclusions based on the first google result. Basing your opinion on what is effectively a pagerank is the same as basing it on popular opinion. When I cited articles that refuted these facts with observations and information on the actual implementation, I was told those articles were by a "entity that pandered to Microsoft". Even if that is the case, if what they presented was not fact, it would be fairly easy to refute; Since it was backed up by several hardware manufacturer specifications and other documents on the subject, I find it hard to believe that the dismissal is nothing but a knee-jerk reaction. Do I know much about UEFI? No, of course not. I don't have a system that has it so I have to rely on other sources. But I won't believe the words of a Linux advocate telling me UEFI is a huge conspiracy to prevent the inevitable rise of Linux as the bestest system ever anymore than I would believe that it wasn't at least sanctioned by MS themselves. That is one of the reasons why I decided to put Windows 8 on my laptop. I was originally skeptical. I first installed the RTM release in early August. (I was provided with an internal download before it even appeared on MSDN or became publically available in Oct.) There were some issues, but they amounted to nothing more than minor annoyances. In particular I had long adapted to never use the start menu anyway, instead using the windows key, typing in a query, and running one of the results. Windows 8 preserved this so my interaction didn't change. I cannot even name any of the original annoyances I had with the system, come to think of it. The thing that sold me was the Copy/Move dialog. of course, that is just my experience, but from where I'm standing, basing an opinion on more than a few articles- and actually using the system for an extended period- enough to get past the initial hurdles- is what it is all about. When I first started programming with C#, every corner I turned I was able to find some 'flaw' that I considered to be huge. And on more than one occasion, I even considered giving up and going back to VB6. This is analogous to how many of the people I've found claiming that "they tried it but they hated it" for Windows 8 did. They gave up when they started to have adjustment issues. This is understandable. It can be frustrating, and this is only exacerbated by the fact that we've had the Start Menu paradigm for so long. For my uses, I've found the start menu almost unnecessary since Vista. I never click it, I never use anything except for search, which works pretty much the same in Windows 8. To me, the start menu was vestigial, like Program Manager in 95. There to ease people's transition to the new method (which revolved around search). This is also why the "All Programs" Menu in Vista and 7 is pretty much garbage.

Answer»
According to an article in the new Computerworld magazine,
somebody at Dell computer company says that Windows 8 is the cause of slow sales of personal computers. Somebody has made that kind of statement before, and this would indicate there is some kind of talk ceiling inside the company that Windows 8 is not what they WANTED it to be.
My guess is they wanted something so innovative that people would be willing to buy new hardware to get a copy of the new software. Well, that's not happening. Or even if it is happening, it's not enough to boost up lagging sales.
Of course there's always some kind of an expert that has an opinion about everything. One such expert predicts that sales will keep falling as much by 20% for the next five years. How can he know what's going to HAPPEN in the next five years? Did he mean 20% after five years or did he mean 20% per year.

If the latter, Dell and some other companies might as well switch over to some other kind of technology maybe they could come up with a new device for sharpening kitchen knives and sell it on TV with a money back guarantee. They more than likely would make money that way rather than trying to sell people personal computers they don't want. But a better way to sharpening kitchen knives would be more innovative than a PC that looks like it was supposed to be a smart phone but got too fat.

I would've posted this in computer news, but this is more about speculation and conjecture. However, real computer news, is not like that.

Links:
Dell computer company blames poor sales on Windows 8.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/research-firm-pc-sales-plunge-windows-8-flops
But MS flips the story over.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Microsoft-PC-Windows-8-Sales,20720.html
If newer computers were sold with a license key OS version option such as Windows 7 64bit / Windows 8 64 bit dual key like systems of the past, i think they would have better sales for all brands, as well as any slump in sales may be just because people dont need a new system and can get by with their already existing computers, or due to the fact that more people are building their own these days trough Tiger Direct, Newegg, and other sources for hardware.

I know that I have saved lots of money building my own, and have only bought 4 computers brand new in the last 20 years. Out of curiosity the one day i tested my 11 year old motherboard against modern computing needs, a Pentium 4 2 Ghz with 1GB RAM running Windows XP Pro SP3, with integrated Intel 845GL graphics ( 64mb shared memory).

It was able to play Netflix over the web on lowest 360 settings, with very little noticable lag when viewing. Audio quality was perfect. I also tested it for Facebook and all the Flash apps etc worked, although some games such as the casino game with slot machine dials had the audio complete before the dials got done spinning etc. It was playable, although it was struggling with Flash Games. Web surfing was no problems at all with Firefox. The only problem this 11 year old motherboard had for modern use was video games. Its older slower single-core 2Ghz CPU and integrated Intel 845GL graphics with 64MB shared memory was no match for the majority of games purchased off the SHELF unless you look at the Walmart $10 game titles that are not complicated in graphics and code execution and support Pentium III 800Mhz or faster system with 64MB video memory such as puzzle games and sim type games.

As far as multi OS choice systems, I have seen the dual keys on Toshiba laptops, and HP Compaq's for Business class which came with Windows 98/ Windows 2000, as well as Windows 2000 Pro / Windows XP Pro, as well as Windows XP Home / Windows Vista back when so many people as well as businesses were rejecting Vista.

If they gave customers a choice of Windows 7 or Windows 8 without any additional cost, you would have way more happy people out there. Those who want 8 will be happy with 8 and those who want 7 with start menu will be happy with 7.

Whether its Windows 7 or Windows 8, Microsoft should allow for this downgrade and not care if a customer wants 7 or 8 as long as they are getting their revenue in per computer sold license fee. But I have this strong feeling that they have such pride in Windows 8 as well as want to collect on those who hate it, that they are almost forcing people to go the route of Windows 8 if you buy new computers, and if you have a problem with it... give us more money for 7!!! Which makes them more money than giving free downgrades to Windows 7 as they have in the past for some 98, 2000, XP, and Vista PC's.

Has anyone seen a Windows 7 / Windows 8 dual license key label affixed to any new computers yet, I havent?This just in::

"" MS Blames Dell for slow Win 8 sales""....
Film at Eleven.Quote from: patio on June 05, 2013, 08:12:44 PM

This just in::

"" MS Blames Dell for slow Win 8 sales""....
Film at Eleven.

That just now raised the CH rank in Google. Good work, Patio.Quote from: DaveLembke on June 05, 2013, 07:35:47 PM

Whether its Windows 7 or Windows 8, Microsoft should allow for this downgrade and not care if a customer wants 7 or 8 as long as they are getting their revenue in per computer sold license fee. But I have this strong feeling that they have such pride in Windows 8 as well as want to collect on those who hate it, that they are almost forcing people to go the route of Windows 8 if you buy new computers, and if you have a problem with it... give us more money for 7!!! Which makes them more money than giving free downgrades to Windows 7 as they have in the past for some 98, 2000, XP, and Vista PC's.

Has anyone seen a Windows 7 / Windows 8 dual license key label affixed to any new computers yet, I havent?

Understanding Downgrade Rights.

MS already provides downgrade rights for Windows 8. I don't think they actually had a downgrade 'program' of sorts until Vista.

Of note: the downgrade rights don't mean you are able to say, dual-boot with win8 and win7. If you downgrade, it's basically the same software license. Quote

don't mean you are able to say, dual-boot

No, dual boot is not using both versions at the same time.

Now if you could get a duel-core CPU to run two OS at the same time...
Quote from: Geek-9pm on June 06, 2013, 01:49:38 AM

No, dual boot is not using both versions at the same time.

That doesn't matter. if you get a Windows 8 License, and downgrade it to Windows 7, it is a Windows 7 license, and you are no longer "licensed" to use Windows 8 with the original key unless you entirely remove the Windows 7 license. You are trying to ignore the terms right in the EULA, which don't say anything about running the software and everything about installations of the software.

BC, I see your point.
BTW: Thee are statistics out there that show some people are still buying Windows XP. I have no explanation for that. Maybe it is time for MS to stop this whole business of dumping an OS after 12 years.
Meanwhile, Windows 8 sales are still below expectations.
Here is a new post on Computerworld

News for windows 8 salesQuote from: Geek-9pm on June 06, 2013, 01:35:51 PM

Meanwhile, Windows 8 sales are still below expectations.

No they aren't. The article you linked points to dropped prices to encourage tablet makers to use Windows 8.
Windows 8 Sales are about par with Windows 7 sales in the same period, and that is excluding RT.
BC, who can you believe?
One source says MS was disappointed. Another says the Windows 8 release now has run MS profits up 19%. Maybe they wanted 25% instead?
And thee is the lame Blame thing. Blame who for what?

Thee are Critics who hate Win 8 and a near equal number that love it. This post was about recent report of Dell making it a scapegoat to explain poor sales of Dell computers. One thing for sure; Dell sales are poor. And MS is making money.

It should be noted that in MS's sales figures it includes sold and future liscenses for Win8 from builders and re-sellers...so the fact remains there's alot of unsold hardware out there that was counted in those #'s...
By all means they did not want to hurt their Brand by posting dissapointing sales figures...that'll rapidly kill the release of any new product/app.
So take it for what's it worth.Quote from: Geek-9pm on June 07, 2013, 11:25:12 AM

BC, who can you believe?

Neither of them. I never read 'tech news' for this very reason. They suffer from two problems: terrible conflation and statistics skew. One Columnist could point at sales statistics and say Win8 (or any software product) is a success, whereas a detractor can point at those same statistics and say it's a failure. This is exactly what you see with win8 sales figures, and it's hard not to notice that the detractors are always Linux or Apple advocates (eg. "MS Haters") and the people saying it's a success are in some ways "MS Shills".

What I find annoying on both counts is that most of these columnists seem to focus on how much Windows 8 has sold, how popular it is, etc. while completely ignoring any of the actual merits of the software. And when they do look at it, it's so shallow they may as well just show a screenshot of Windows 8.1 and say "the start menu is coming back" (oh, right, that's what they did).

The POPULARITY of a piece of software is not a direct reflection of it's quality, it's a function of that quality and marketing. A great product that is marketed terribly probably isn't going to be popular, and a terrible product that is exceptionally marketed can easily take over. Windows Vista is a example of the former, and Windows 7 is an example of the Latter; they are practically identical, but their different marketing approaches completely flip-flopped public opinion. Windows Vista was said- in marketing- to be "the greatest Windows yet" and this is confrontational to those using XP; They already became defensive when using it, looking for issues and so forth. Windows 7 was marketed as "we fixed it" (essentially) but all they really fixed was not saying it was the greatest version yet.

The corollary to this is often that Popularity of some products (such as of course Windows) is inversely proportional to how good it is, which is unsurprisingly the argument posited by Linux or Apple Advocates. This is equally fallacious. Objectively considering UI design, usability, stability, and so forth requires taking all information and pairing it with actual experience and observations to come to a conclusion.

One of the more interesting Windows 8 conversations I've had involved UEFI. Nobody really knows squat about UEFI- myself included- but they seem apt to draw their conclusions based on the first google result. Basing your opinion on what is effectively a pagerank is the same as basing it on popular opinion. When I cited articles that refuted these facts with observations and information on the actual implementation, I was told those articles were by a "entity that pandered to Microsoft". Even if that is the case, if what they presented was not fact, it would be fairly easy to refute; Since it was backed up by several hardware manufacturer specifications and other documents on the subject, I find it hard to believe that the dismissal is nothing but a knee-jerk reaction. Do I know much about UEFI? No, of course not. I don't have a system that has it so I have to rely on other sources. But I won't believe the words of a Linux advocate telling me UEFI is a huge conspiracy to prevent the inevitable rise of Linux as the bestest system ever anymore than I would believe that it wasn't at least sanctioned by MS themselves.

That is one of the reasons why I decided to put Windows 8 on my laptop. I was originally skeptical. I first installed the RTM release in early August. (I was provided with an internal download before it even appeared on MSDN or became publically available in Oct.) There were some issues, but they amounted to nothing more than minor annoyances. In particular I had long adapted to never use the start menu anyway, instead using the windows key, typing in a query, and running one of the results. Windows 8 preserved this so my interaction didn't change. I cannot even name any of the original annoyances I had with the system, come to think of it. The thing that sold me was the Copy/Move dialog.

of course, that is just my experience, but from where I'm standing, basing an opinion on more than a few articles- and actually using the system for an extended period- enough to get past the initial hurdles- is what it is all about. When I first started programming with C#, every corner I turned I was able to find some 'flaw' that I considered to be huge. And on more than one occasion, I even considered giving up and going back to VB6. This is analogous to how many of the people I've found claiming that "they tried it but they hated it" for Windows 8 did. They gave up when they started to have adjustment issues. This is understandable. It can be frustrating, and this is only exacerbated by the fact that we've had the Start Menu paradigm for so long. For my uses, I've found the start menu almost unnecessary since Vista. I never click it, I never use anything except for search, which works pretty much the same in Windows 8. To me, the start menu was vestigial, like Program Manager in 95. There to ease people's transition to the new method (which revolved around search). This is also why the "All Programs" Menu in Vista and 7 is pretty much garbage.

Solve : Dell Blames Windows 8 for Poor Sales.?

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