Solve : Bizarre problem with graphics card?

1.	Solve : Bizarre problem with graphics card?
Answer» Hi, Something very weird is going on, let me explain. I bought a used GTX580, with a gelid icy vision cooler. I had the temps 60-70 on trackmania(60fps), crysis(50fps). I thought I would try and get it cooler by replacing the paste. After taking it off, there was like a massive load of 'bluetack' stuff left on, I think this was a thermal pad. I used some AS5, and reattached unit, and temps were going over 70s, and sometimes higher. Tried again using MX4 (cleaning with 99% isopropyl alcohol), no change. Tried using a small amount of paste and a large amount, no change. I since upgraded my system to watercooling as I've always wanted a custom loop, and I like to overclock my cpu. I have a D5 vario pump/res combo, with RX480 rad, and EK-supremacy nickel vga waterblock. So..., attached the card to the waterblock (with MX4), it looked good at first, idle temps of 31C, in 28C room heat. But as soon as I put trackmania on, the temps shot up into the 70s. But the water in system was still only low 30s. Had another go at reattaching waterblock to the card, with XSPC-K2, idle temps of 42, then after a few minutes, the temp rose to 90+ and computer shutdown, all I was doing was chatting on a forum. It sounds as if there's a big gap between the 2 surfaces, but I'm clearly pressing them together, and can 'feel' the paste spreading out, before I tighten up the screws solidly. 3 of the heat sinks fell off the end of the card near to the where the power cables go, I don't think that's the reason for it. So I'm quite fed up now, can't even use the card as it is. I've ordered a thermal pad on ebay, but that MIGHT take a while to get here from china. Let me know if any thoughts of whats going on, thanks. Heres a pic http://www.colin-java.co.uk/pics/system.jpgWhat does your GPU and block look like once you take them apart, after fitting? If you could get a picture of that, that would be an indicator of how well the GPU is making contact with the block. How are your CPU temps at idle and under load? Any heat pads that got torn or lost must be replaced, thermal paste can't bridge the gaps that pads are used for. That may be part of the issue, though not all - the GPU itself will use paste, the VRAM and voltage regulators are usually where the pads are and they're still very important. The VRMs can run at 100C+ so they're vital to cool. Also, missing heatsinks are not good news. What are you using to monitor the temperatures of the card? Try GPU-Z as it'll easily grab not just your GPU temps but the PCB, VRMs, and other useful information.Thanks for quick reply, I think my VIDEO card is haunted I took off the card from waterblock, but had to twist it as it was attached so well. I did use quite a large amount of K2 paste this time, and put it in the middle, so when pressing surfaces together, it would avoid any trapped air (I've also tried the spreading it over with finger, small and large amounts, but no difference). www.colin-java.co.uk/pics/gpu1.jpg www.colin-java.co.uk/pics/gpu2.jpg I'm using hardware monitor for the temps, but I have gpu-z as well. CPU idle temps are around 35C, water temp(measured at reservoir) is 31.0, room temp is 28.8. Load temps on cpu (Using y-cruncher, give 55C, the cores varying from 51-59), I think these temps would normally be lower, but its been roasting here the last few days. I do have those 3 heatsinks, but nothing to attach them with at the moment. Thanks for your help. That is a LOT of thermal paste...you only need a very small amount, the less the better. Thermal paste is there for one reason only - to fill the tiny gaps which would otherwise be air, as thermal paste conducts heat much much better than air, but much much worse than metal. Your method of spreading is fine, ideally use a blob about the size of a grain of rice or, for larger GPUs like the 580, a small ball bearing, and let the pressure spread it as you screw down the block evenly. Spreading it out just encourages air bubbles. The reason I asked about your CPU temps is in case there was something funky with your loop as a whole, but they don't sound too bad. Where were the 3 heatsinks on the card? And, those heatsinks on the left in the first photo you just posted, did they come with the block?The 3 heatsinks on the left in first pic came with card, they all did. On the right of the pic, there were 3 long heatsinks, but these were loose, so I took them off. Also you see the 3 big square ones, on the right in the first pic. Theres basically 4 little chips under these, and it rests on the corner of each chip. Theres nothing centrally below the heatsink. It seems very bad to me, like 10% of each of those chips touches the heatsink, I would have thought each one needs to be covered. I know the ram has to be cooled, but isn't that separate to the gpu core temp? I do plan on putting a fan underneath the card at some point. You think my cpu is too hot? I was getting 50-55 load temps the other day with my H100i, but the room temp was about 24C(6 degrees less) I put the paste on in an X and + style, so might be too much paste, it uses a raystorm block. Thanks for your help Too much paste is worse than not enough as stated above... See Here... Quote from: colin on July 13, 2013, 08:11:49 AM The 3 heatsinks on the left in first pic came with card, they all did. Ah, OK, understood. You may need some airflow over the card then, as you have a universal block and the standard heatsinks are designed to work with airflow from the STOCK cooler. Quote On the right of the pic, there were 3 long heatsinks, but these were loose, so I took them off. On the right of the first picture, second post? Quote Also you see the 3 big square ones, on the right in the first pic. Theres basically 4 little chips under these, and it rests on the corner of each chip. Theres nothing centrally below the heatsink. It seems very bad to me, like 10% of each of those chips touches the heatsink, I would have thought each one needs to be covered. They cover the VRMs, there's no realistic way to make a heatsink small enough for each chip. They do an adequate job with the stock cooler, because the fan will force air over them to cool them. Out of interest, what does GPU-Z say your VRM temperatures are? Quote I know the ram has to be cooled, but isn't that separate to the gpu core temp? I do plan on putting a fan underneath the card at some point. It is, hence why I said it wasn't the cause of the temperature being too high, but nevertheless it definitely needs COOLING. Right now it's covered by those heatsinks, so that's alright, but it will need airflow. Quote You think my cpu is too hot? Nope, CPU is fine. I was asking in case it was quite high. If it was, we could've been dealing with a flow problem, for example. Just to be sure, have you bled the loop and made sure there's no air in the GPU block? It can be very tricky to get it all out. Does your flow through the loop look OK?The flow through the loop seems good, i have the transparent gpu block, so I can kinda see inside it, and there doesn't seem to be any trapped bubbles. I ran the system with mobo out of case for a few hours, and theres only microscopic bubbles left. Anyway, I just applied a ballbearing of paste, and it looks better... Using GPU-Z.. Room temp is now 30.0C, with 3 fans on radiator on full... Trackmania on medium settings (1920x1080) gives 47C during play Trackmania on high settings (1920x1080) gives 56C during play Trackmania on veryhigh settings (1920x1080) hits 80+ during play, so I close it. But thats the thing, the card is capable of very high settings on this game, but its pointless if it burns itself out trying to do it, I might as well be using a weaker card. It is idling now at 41.0C, room temp 30.0, water temp about 33. I heard video cards ran very cold on watercooling, like 50C or below on full load. So I'm still not getting those kind of results, but if it was 10 degrees cooler in here, my results might look better. Thanks for any advice. That sounds much better, not perfect but a good improvement. Watercooling temperatures will always vary depending on every single component in the system and in the loop. 30C is a very warm ambient temperature, so your results will be slightly skewed. When I used to clock 580s day in, day out, on air they would hit around 90C under prolonged full load, when overclocked to the max. Under water I would expect around 50-60C under full load, although as I say results will always vary between even individual cards. Airflow over the card as a whole will help your temperatures, VRM temperatures also affect the GPU temperature so if you can cool those, and the back of the card, you'll be able to drop your core temperatures too. The importance of airflow when using a GPU-only block rather than a full cover block cannot be understated, it's absolutely critical because all those other components not covered by the block depend on airflow which is usually directed over them by the design of the heatsink and the fan.System has been idle for a while, and its still 41C , I have those two 80mm fans off the heatsink, going to make a BRACKET for them, so they can clip onto it, and put it under the card, but with an inch between them. I think when I get my next card, I'll get one with full waterblock, and hopefully it should run cool. ThanksHey Calum.. I made a bracket to put the 2 80mm fans from original cooler in. I put it below the graphics card, and its now idling at 36 from 41, and TrackMania on High Settings (Not very-high) is now 45, from 56 !!!! And its still 29/30 degrees in here. Also, the fan aren't on 100% speed, and one of them is broke! So basically, I just have the right side fan 3 or 4 inches below the base of card, blowing about 70% speed. So it seems those memory chips or whatever they are, are contributing to the gpu core temp. Cheers for help.Sounds like a good improvement there. The VRAM and especially VRMs can certainly contribute to the GPU core temperature if they're not properly cooled.

Answer»

Hi,

Something very weird is going on, let me explain.
I bought a used GTX580, with a gelid icy vision cooler.
I had the temps 60-70 on trackmania(60fps), crysis(50fps).

I thought I would try and get it cooler by replacing the paste.
After taking it off, there was like a massive load of 'bluetack' stuff left on, I think this was a thermal pad.

I used some AS5, and reattached unit, and temps were going over 70s, and sometimes higher.

Tried again using MX4 (cleaning with 99% isopropyl alcohol), no change.
Tried using a small amount of paste and a large amount, no change.

I since upgraded my system to watercooling as I've always wanted a custom loop, and I like to overclock my cpu. I have a D5 vario pump/res combo, with RX480 rad, and EK-supremacy nickel vga waterblock.

So..., attached the card to the waterblock (with MX4), it looked good at first, idle temps of 31C, in 28C room heat.
But as soon as I put trackmania on, the temps shot up into the 70s.
But the water in system was still only low 30s.

Had another go at reattaching waterblock to the card, with XSPC-K2, idle temps of 42, then after a few minutes, the temp rose to 90+ and computer shutdown, all I was doing was chatting on a forum.

It sounds as if there's a big gap between the 2 surfaces, but I'm clearly pressing them together, and can 'feel' the paste spreading out, before I tighten up the screws solidly.

3 of the heat sinks fell off the end of the card near to the where the power cables go, I don't think that's the reason for it.

So I'm quite fed up now, can't even use the card as it is.
I've ordered a thermal pad on ebay, but that MIGHT take a while to get here from china.

Let me know if any thoughts of whats going on, thanks.
Heres a pic http://www.colin-java.co.uk/pics/system.jpgWhat does your GPU and block look like once you take them apart, after fitting? If you could get a picture of that, that would be an indicator of how well the GPU is making contact with the block.
How are your CPU temps at idle and under load?
Any heat pads that got torn or lost must be replaced, thermal paste can't bridge the gaps that pads are used for. That may be part of the issue, though not all - the GPU itself will use paste, the VRAM and voltage regulators are usually where the pads are and they're still very important. The VRMs can run at 100C+ so they're vital to cool.
Also, missing heatsinks are not good news.
What are you using to monitor the temperatures of the card? Try GPU-Z as it'll easily grab not just your GPU temps but the PCB, VRMs, and other useful information.Thanks for quick reply, I think my VIDEO card is haunted

I took off the card from waterblock, but had to twist it as it was attached so well.
I did use quite a large amount of K2 paste this time, and put it in the middle, so when pressing surfaces together,
it would avoid any trapped air (I've also tried the spreading it over with finger, small and large amounts, but no difference).

www.colin-java.co.uk/pics/gpu1.jpg
www.colin-java.co.uk/pics/gpu2.jpg

I'm using hardware monitor for the temps, but I have gpu-z as well.
CPU idle temps are around 35C, water temp(measured at reservoir) is 31.0, room temp is 28.8.
Load temps on cpu (Using y-cruncher, give 55C, the cores varying from 51-59),
I think these temps would normally be lower, but its been roasting here the last few days.

I do have those 3 heatsinks, but nothing to attach them with at the moment.

Thanks for your help.
That is a LOT of thermal paste...you only need a very small amount, the less the better. Thermal paste is there for one reason only - to fill the tiny gaps which would otherwise be air, as thermal paste conducts heat much much better than air, but much much worse than metal. Your method of spreading is fine, ideally use a blob about the size of a grain of rice or, for larger GPUs like the 580, a small ball bearing, and let the pressure spread it as you screw down the block evenly. Spreading it out just encourages air bubbles.
The reason I asked about your CPU temps is in case there was something funky with your loop as a whole, but they don't sound too bad.
Where were the 3 heatsinks on the card? And, those heatsinks on the left in the first photo you just posted, did they come with the block?The 3 heatsinks on the left in first pic came with card, they all did.

On the right of the pic, there were 3 long heatsinks, but these were loose, so I took them off.

Also you see the 3 big square ones, on the right in the first pic.
Theres basically 4 little chips under these, and it rests on the corner of each chip.
Theres nothing centrally below the heatsink.
It seems very bad to me, like 10% of each of those chips touches the heatsink,
I would have thought each one needs to be covered.

I know the ram has to be cooled, but isn't that separate to the gpu core temp?
I do plan on putting a fan underneath the card at some point.

You think my cpu is too hot?
I was getting 50-55 load temps the other day with my H100i, but the room temp was about 24C(6 degrees less)
I put the paste on in an X and + style, so might be too much paste, it uses a raystorm block.

Thanks for your help

Too much paste is worse than not enough as stated above...

See Here... Quote from: colin on July 13, 2013, 08:11:49 AM

The 3 heatsinks on the left in first pic came with card, they all did.

Ah, OK, understood. You may need some airflow over the card then, as you have a universal block and the standard heatsinks are designed to work with airflow from the STOCK cooler.

Quote

On the right of the pic, there were 3 long heatsinks, but these were loose, so I took them off.

On the right of the first picture, second post?

Quote

Also you see the 3 big square ones, on the right in the first pic.
Theres basically 4 little chips under these, and it rests on the corner of each chip.
Theres nothing centrally below the heatsink.
It seems very bad to me, like 10% of each of those chips touches the heatsink,
I would have thought each one needs to be covered.

They cover the VRMs, there's no realistic way to make a heatsink small enough for each chip. They do an adequate job with the stock cooler, because the fan will force air over them to cool them. Out of interest, what does GPU-Z say your VRM temperatures are?

Quote

I know the ram has to be cooled, but isn't that separate to the gpu core temp?
I do plan on putting a fan underneath the card at some point.

It is, hence why I said it wasn't the cause of the temperature being too high, but nevertheless it definitely needs COOLING. Right now it's covered by those heatsinks, so that's alright, but it will need airflow.

Quote

You think my cpu is too hot?

Nope, CPU is fine. I was asking in case it was quite high. If it was, we could've been dealing with a flow problem, for example. Just to be sure, have you bled the loop and made sure there's no air in the GPU block? It can be very tricky to get it all out. Does your flow through the loop look OK?The flow through the loop seems good, i have the transparent gpu block, so I can kinda see inside it,
and there doesn't seem to be any trapped bubbles.
I ran the system with mobo out of case for a few hours, and theres only microscopic bubbles left.

Anyway, I just applied a ballbearing of paste, and it looks better...

Using GPU-Z..
Room temp is now 30.0C, with 3 fans on radiator on full...
Trackmania on medium settings (1920x1080) gives 47C during play
Trackmania on high settings (1920x1080) gives 56C during play
Trackmania on veryhigh settings (1920x1080) hits 80+ during play, so I close it.
But thats the thing, the card is capable of very high settings on this game,
but its pointless if it burns itself out trying to do it, I might as well be using a weaker card.

It is idling now at 41.0C, room temp 30.0, water temp about 33.

I heard video cards ran very cold on watercooling, like 50C or below on full load.
So I'm still not getting those kind of results, but if it was 10 degrees cooler in here,
my results might look better.

Thanks for any advice.

That sounds much better, not perfect but a good improvement.
Watercooling temperatures will always vary depending on every single component in the system and in the loop.
30C is a very warm ambient temperature, so your results will be slightly skewed.
When I used to clock 580s day in, day out, on air they would hit around 90C under prolonged full load, when overclocked to the max. Under water I would expect around 50-60C under full load, although as I say results will always vary between even individual cards.
Airflow over the card as a whole will help your temperatures, VRM temperatures also affect the GPU temperature so if you can cool those, and the back of the card, you'll be able to drop your core temperatures too. The importance of airflow when using a GPU-only block rather than a full cover block cannot be understated, it's absolutely critical because all those other components not covered by the block depend on airflow which is usually directed over them by the design of the heatsink and the fan.System has been idle for a while, and its still 41C ,

I have those two 80mm fans off the heatsink, going to make a BRACKET for them,
so they can clip onto it, and put it under the card, but with an inch between them.

I think when I get my next card, I'll get one with full waterblock, and hopefully it should run cool.

ThanksHey Calum..

I made a bracket to put the 2 80mm fans from original cooler in.
I put it below the graphics card, and its now idling at 36 from 41, and
TrackMania on High Settings (Not very-high) is now 45, from 56 !!!!
And its still 29/30 degrees in here.

Also, the fan aren't on 100% speed, and one of them is broke!
So basically, I just have the right side fan 3 or 4 inches below the base of card,
blowing about 70% speed.

So it seems those memory chips or whatever they are, are contributing to the gpu core temp.

Cheers for help.Sounds like a good improvement there. The VRAM and especially VRMs can certainly contribute to the GPU core temperature if they're not properly cooled.

Solve : Bizarre problem with graphics card?

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